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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMin - PR - 2023.06.15R C1TfY ti o� `ls Rvoawreo PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION FINAL Meeting Minutes Regular Meeting on Thursday, June 15, 2023 1. CALL TO ORDER The duly noticed regular meeting of the Burlingame Parks & Recreation Commission was called to order by Chair Pappajohn at 7:01 pm. 2. ROLL CALL COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Holzman, Brunello, Pappajohn, Chang, Milne, Yu, and Wettan COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: None STAFF PRESENT: Parks & Recreation Director Glomstad, Parks Superintendent Holtz, Recreation Manager Acquisti & Recording Secretary Helley OTHERS PRESENT: Sam Stahl, Burlingame; Zoom: Alison Lemaire, Bill Cema, Christine Hessler, Eric Bluestein, Jay Leslie, JD, Kate Rosenquist, Meaghan Dunne, Ray, Rick, Stephanie Doppelt, Sue Monroe, Tammy Dowling, Theresa 3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Commissioner Wettan made a motion to approve the May minutes. The motion was seconded by Commissioner Brunello, and the motion was approved. 7-0. 4. CORRESPONDENCE None 5. PUBLIC COMMENTS None 6. OLD BUSINESS 1 Parks & Recreation Commission Final Minutes June 15, 2023 7. NEW BUSINESS a. Off -leash Options for Ray Park Field Recreation Manager Acquisti reported that in 2021, a neighbor who lives in the Ray Park area met with City staff to request a change to the City's dog off -leash ordinance as it pertains to Ray Park. Currently, the Burlingame Municipal Code Chapter 9.04 does not allow dogs off -leash on Ray Park Field. For discussion, the options are 1) Permitting off -leash during certain hours on the field, 2) Fencing a dedicated space on the field for dogs, and 3) No off -leash dogs permitted on Ray Park Field. Each of these options has pros/cons. The Dog Park Committee met to discuss the request and then solicited input from the user groups that utilize Ray Park Field. The Committee had a thorough discussion and agreed to recommend to the Commission that the current ordinance should remain for Ray Park Field. Their reasons include the following: • An existing dedicated off -leash area is open at the same hours as the park. • The field is still relatively new, and the damage to the ground and grass can be substantial as it continues to mature. • Dog waste and digging create holes that result in hazardous field conditions. • The Burlingame community is bearing the cost for the maintenance and staff time required for the ongoing repairs of Ray Park field. Acquisti noted she would take any questions from the Commission. Commissioner Wettan inquired about the depth of the fence that was considered. Acquisti noted that one of the Council members on the Committee had a lot of knowledge of Girls Softball, and that was taken into consideration. Meaghan Dunne, Burlingame Girls Softball president, noted the placement of the fence is determined by the use of the field and the entire field is needed for practices. Ian Milne, president of BGS several years ago, noted that a permanent fence would impede baseball practices and drills. Pappajohn asked if baseball and flag football enrollment are trending up or down. Acquisti noted that all sports are trending up. Pappajohn inquired if there was an "off-season" for sports on the field. Acquisti stated that "off-season" is winter, and the fields are closed from the end of November to the beginning of February. Milne referred to a statement in the staff report, and observationally, he walks in Washington Park a lot and noted that there are signs posted with the hours and location of the dog off -leash area, and yet there are dogs all over the field, and at all times of the day. He inquired if this issue takes up staff time. Superintendent Holtz noted that staff receives emails from the public with photos, complaints, etc. It is time-consuming for staff to remind the public to bring dogs to the designated area, particularly in June, July, and August. Dogs are not supposed to be on the field, and staff are 2 Parks & Recreation Commission Final Minutes June 15, 2023 out there very frequently reminding people. In addition, the fields are mowed every Monday, and there are always people who need to be asked to leave the area for maintenance. Pappajohn inquired if the rules are enforceable and if they are complaint -based. Acquisti answered that staff would go out and remind people; if they do not comply, they would have to call the police. Commissioner Yu inquired about the existing Ray Park off -leash area getting mixed reviews. Acquisti noted that some people like to run their dogs on grass. The surface of the current Ray Park off -leash area is tan bark, and it also has trees with roots popping out from the eucalyptus trees. Commissioner Wettan asked if there have been any thoughts about improving the dog park; as it is now in the winter, it has become a mud pit. Holtz noted that staff is open to suggestions, has met with community members, and has tried accommodating suggestions. Staff has considered different types of surfacing and additives that might make the area less dusty and stable. Many of them are not practical due to the limited space. He noted that staff receive a lot of suggestions for Skyline Park, in particular, asking why grass is not grown on the site. Grass doesn't grow well under eucalyptus trees. Commissioner Brunello noted that the idea of fencing off an area would eventually become a barren area as well. Chair Pappajohn opened public comment. Emails submitted for comment — Patricia Urbina — "I do not support dogs off -leash in parks. It is too risky! I walk in many areas of San Mateo and am often dismayed to see dog owners allow their pets off -leash when signs clearly state they may not be. If owners cannot abide by the rules to keep all citizens safe, I would rather see the pets not allowed at all in public spaces. As a walker who often encounters off -leash dogs in San Mateo county, I am in favor of requiring all dogs be leashed when out and about or not be allowed in certain places. Thank you for your attention in this matter." Graham Mudd — "I understand Parks and Rec has a hearing this evening about dogs on leash at Ray Park. Parks are public assets, so I urge you to consider that park policies should support as many activities as possible. The parks dept should actively communicate and enforce dog owner responsibilities but also support the community's desire to gather with our dogs off -leash." In Person Public Comments: Craig Darling — "I am here for two primary reasons. The first is for my children, who are here tonight and who have grown up across from Ray Park. I want to show them that when you believe in something, it is important to stand up and fight for those beliefs. The second reason is that I don't think the current ordinance and recommendations by the staff are reasonable. I am here to ask this Committee to create common sense ordinances that allow dogs to be off -leash at certain Parks & Recreation Commission Final Minutes June 15, 2023 times of the day when the park is not in use, whether it be with sports teams or Lincoln School. What I am not asking for is unfettered access to the park at all times of the day for my dog to be off -leash. The City seems to think that there can't be an in-between, and I disagree. I have heard all the arguments about how bad dogs are for the field, and I've seen no conclusive evidence, as pointed out by the Superintendent, that demonstrates that dogs are destroying the field any more than kids who play on the field. The argument that we just renovated the field and, therefore, we need to restrict the access is uncalled for since dog owners pay taxes just like everyone else. So here is my proposal: Let's try a pilot program. What do we have to lose? All I am asking for is that there is an attempt to find a middle ground. The current proposal is not what over 75 people, and I can share the petition with you, have said. This is a contentious issue, but it doesn't need to be. I am in favor of basically creating a reasonable ordinance that allows everybody to share and take in the beauty of Ray Park. That is all I am asking. Thanks for your time." Eileen Kim — "I am a Burlingame resident, and some of you know I am a dog owner as well, although not just now. I just heard about this meeting this morning and read the staff report very quickly, so I apologize if I read it incorrectly or I make mistakes; however, I do think there are some problems with the staff report. Mostly, what I would like to say is that it seems like the Committee met with BYBA and, the softball club, and Lincoln and made an effort to do all those things, but I don't see that there was a real effort to talk to dog owners and discuss it with all of us. I guarantee you there would be more than 75, I did not know about this petition until just now, but I would have signed it. I know it is more difficult as there is not an organization of dog owners in town, but if more people knew about this was being discussed, then you would get a lot more input and possibly more support for off -leash times, so I was just hoping that this is not a done deal and maybe the dog committee could have citizens on the Committee and not just commissioners and council people so that we could get more information out to the community and allow these issues to be discussed. I think maybe making some sort of surface that is more friendly would be. I don't know that you have exhausted all the possibilities. I know that when we were talking about turf, I would be opposed to turf, but some other sort of natural surface might be possible. There is lots of innovation these days. I know they are talking about coconut bark. Generally speaking, would like to have more conversation around this and not have it be a done deal. The other thing I would like to mention is that once I was in Menlo Park, their parks had an arrangement with community members who would go once a week and walk the park and clean up any feces, so it is not putting more work time on City staff, maybe we could do something like that, I am sure there would be dog owners that would be interested in doing that if that allowed for more off -leash time. Just hope the conversation stays open and we keep talking about it because I don't think not allowing off -leash at all is the right decision. Thanks." Julia Duree — "First of all, I would like to say I play softball, and I heard someone say that if we put a fence up, we will get more home runs, and if you have seen the Billy Sue Tournament, you would know that, you can only go to second. I would like to make two points that I hope are impactful to the community. First, in school, we are taught to share. I don't know why my dog Rosie cannot share the field with other people that want to use the field as well. As a community, we should be able to share. Second, the current space for dogs at Ray Park is not good. It hurts my dog Rosie's feet. We've had to take Rosie to the vet numerous times, and it is very expensive. If I am nine years old and can share, so can adults. Thank you" 4 Parks & Recreation Commission Final Minutes June 15, 2023 Hannah Wandeman — "I am a former student at Lincoln School, and I have a dog. I have two points. The first one is that we are all a part of a community, and I really enjoy going to the park with my dog and getting to play on the field and having fun without having my dog being restricted by a leash. And also, if we have to drive all the way to a different dog park, that is not good for the environment. The gas and pollution that a car would put out would hurt the environment, and if we could just walk to a nearby park and are able to play there, that would be really good for the environment. And also, that as a former student from Lincoln, I know that kids can do damage to the field, too, and I think that hundreds of kids a month running and playing on the field cause more damage than a couple of cute little dogs would. If we could all share the field, it would be better for the community, the environment, and make everyone's life a little easier." Samantha — "I wasn't planning on talking. However, I would like to represent the other side. I live in this community and have had a lot of situations come up with pet owners, mostly not pets. I have been told by the police after calling the non -emergency line, to really not approach the pet owners and to just call the non -emergency line directly because of some pretty intense confrontations that I have had just asking people to leash their dogs up during the normal time when they are supposed to be leashed. I feel like it gets in the way if I want to play frisbee in the grass with my kids or, play catch or just enjoy the park. I want there to be a time when dogs can be off -leash because I do enjoy that as well but also for that time to come to an end at some point where I can expect to use the park freely without dogs running around. I see there are definitely a lot of areas where dogs can play in our community, and I am grateful for that and I hope to be a dog owner someday and take advantage of that, and I know the grass sounds really "cushy" and it is "cushy" for everyone else too and we love to go and picnic out there and play. I just don't always want a dog off -leash approaching me, even if it is friendly. I was in the park this morning when a young girl walking to school, she walks the same path every day, was bitten by a dog this morning, and there is a lot of conversation about it on Next Door, and it is unfortunate it was during the time when dogs are to be leashed. I hope that can be addressed and we can find a way to share. If my kids were here, they would just wonder why there is no enforcement - how come people who don't follow the rules is not enforced, so that if it is bothering some people to share the park when the dogs are supposed to be leashed, I hope that they can start making those calls so that we can have those calls documented to the non -emergency line. Also, as a side note, now that the parking lot is more open as compared to the old building, this area is becoming much more accessible and much more well-known as the dog park. I wish Ray Park was known as the dog park, but it is not unfortunately. Jen Bizer — "We are a Lincoln family, a BIS family, and dog owners as well. One thing I want to echo is what Howard had mentioned about the issues with the current dog park at Ray. I would also like to add that it's just simply not large enough. And that is not due to lack of planning. That is due to the lack of size of that area of the park. So, if you have a larger, sportier dog, they are not getting their run on in that area, and that is one of the main health issues for dogs of any kind to get the proper amount of exercise that they need so that is one additional concern with that area of the park. I also want to mention that Commission talked a lot about the different constituents, whether they are athletes or kids, or families, dog owners are constituents as well. I don't have a toddler anymore, but we as a family still pay into our taxes and pay into this community for parks that my family will not be using just because we have outgrown it. We are a dog family and we would like to continue to have opportunities to the facilities of the community in that way as well, and so we are a constituent that would like to be considered just as much as anyone else. Parks & Recreation Commission Final Minutes June 15, 2023 Unknown — "I go to Lincoln school, and I love it. The field is nice for playing kickball, volleyball, whatever. I also want to share it with the dogs so that they can get a great experience with it. Because my dog in the dog park always comes home with ripped -up paws and we have to take her to the vet. So, I thought it would be nice if we could share the space to everyone, dogs and humans, but there can be a rule where there are certain times when we can have it and not have it. Chuck Wallis — "I will incorporate everything that has been said from the pro -dog side here. Taking a step back, we know that dogs are part of the American life, and for a lot of people, they really are a part of the family. In particularly for folks as they get older, and they are an important part of the families here in Burlingame, and I think that is worth keeping in mind here as we hit all the points here. As far as dogs generally bothering people, you could say the same thing about kids for people who are not as kid -oriented, and certainly, nobody wants dog bites, and with responsible owners, that generally does not happen. As far as some of the points of the Committee, the off -leash areas have been addressed pretty significantly. I mean, the dedicated dog parks with the fenced -in areas are just not ideal. They are just not good for most people for all the reasons that have been said, and you really feel that when you are in those areas. The field is still relatively new, and the damage, I would reiterate that there is not a lot of evidence that it is from the dogs particularly. When you see all the free play out there and the sports being played, that is what really tears up the field. Dog waste and digging holes, if you look at the rules, a lot of the negative things that are mentioned about dogs and dog feces being left around, dog holes being allowed to be dug, that is not a result of people who pay attention to the rules anyway so whether the rule is yes or the rule is no for off -leash dogs you have irresponsible owners who do not pay attention anyway, and the vast majority of that is happening because of them and not the folks here who actually pay attention to the rules and are pro for some off -leash time here. In wrapping up, in terms of the cost, there is a significant amount of cost to the cleanup incurred after sports events. The community bears the cost of all this, not just the dogs but from all the different uses. James Bazer — "I live near Lincoln school and the park. We moved from the City and moved here because of the community, and I hear a lot about the cost, and I get that but you can't put a price tag on what having the dog park means. Let's not think just of the dollars and cents here. Let's think of the intangibles of what makes this community so great. It's having a place like this park. It's having all these people that I know I am going to see each night when I take my dog to the park." David Wanderman — "I am a Lincoln dad. I love the softball, and I love hearing the cheering. I love seeing the flag football, and I love seeing them play and have a good time. I also love having the opportunity to go with my kids and walk to the local park and have them see their friends and have them running around on the field and have the dog there as well. And it is true community building experience. I feel like there is a lot of language used in the report and used in places that makes it sound like it is a zero -sum game, that it is either softball or dogs, either flag football or dogs, and it's not dogs, it's the families and the community around the dogs, and I don't think it is a zero -sum game. I think it is an all -boats -rise game. A number of my friends who are softball families who also have dogs and also have kids who like to play with the dogs on the field, and I think that there is plenty of opportunity for all boats to rise as we all use the park together. I agree that when you look at the amount of foot traffic on the field, it is much greater than what the dogs tend to create in their foot traffic. I hope for some balance with some hours in what is allowed, 6 Parks & Recreation Commission Final Minutes June 15, 2023 and I agree it should not be during softball time and it should not be during flag football time but we can have balance where everybody can have access to the field." Zoom — Kim Donnellan — "I live on Ray Drive, and the park has been a huge part of my life since I was a child. It was a huge part of what drew me back to buying a home in this community. I did not grow up with dogs, I loved playing with the dogs at the park. My parents, in their old age, took our dog to the park, met a lot of neighbors, and I have met a lot of great people through them. And we purchased a dog. We now go to the park, and we would love our dog to be able to play with other dogs. A part of this is also that growing up, I played Burlingame softball. My name is in many places for winning Nationals in Burlingame. I never remember having an issue playing on the field due to a dog. I think the big thing is we are not asking for prime time here. We are not saying choose us over softball. We're saying please give us like six to seven thirty am when no one is using the field, give us the last 30 minutes before sunset when no one is using the field. We'll walk by. We see people playing. We never consider going to the park and going on the field while other kids are there when sports are going on. But when we go to the dog park, which I do love that you guys built, it's not a solution because dogs, we have a large dog, our dog is not tired at the end of that, it can barely run. It does not chase the ball like it does on the grass field. You don't communicate with all of the people there. I walked in that park, and giant stick went through my shoe and pierced my foot. I could only imagine what would happen to dogs. But also, eucalyptus is toxic to dogs. So, when we're asking people to be in this community, go bring your dog in here where I have had sticks go through my shoe, draw blood, have toxic chemicals around us. I've also had mosquito bites from being next to the creek. I grew up there. I remember the first day when it opened. I went there covered in bites. I can't go here without having long sleeves, and long pants on, and I really think that a big part of the community is being able to say hi to other neighbors. I don't have kids, I like connecting in other ways, and without having my dog and being able to connect with neighbors, there would be no other opportunity for me to meet my neighbors, to meet friends, to know everyone around. And that's a part of what makes this community so great is that we can share those opportunities and be able to share the field with others who have similar interests. So, no one is saying, let's choose flag football, we're saying, let's just have a designated time so that we feel like we can do something that's right and not feel punished by bringing our dogs there and having a great community." Allison Lemire — "Good evening, everybody. I am also a resident of the Ray Park general area. I am a softball mom, a Lincoln mom, and a really active member of the community. And what I'd like to share today is a reiteration and an echo of the request to really consider dog owners as a tax paying constituents, and when I think about the use of Ray Park field, which, you know, being a Lincoln parent, my children use as part of their school day, being a Burlingame softball mother, my daughter uses for her practices, there are absolutely times of the day when that field is not in use that could be repurposed and created as more of a community hub for us by allowing for some limited off -leash dog hours. Along the lines of the dog area that was created in Ray Park, I think there are a couple of reasons that you've heard already why that is not a great solution. Primary reason being the surface is actually being harmful to dogs and causing injuries, but in addition to that, a couple of times that I've tried to use it, the police have shown up saying that they've been fielding calls from local residents because they have heard a couple of errant dog barks. So that space is actually not proving to be welcoming to dog owners. It isn't realistic to say we've got a dog space, but your dog is not allowed to bark at all while they are in it. I don't have a constant 7 Parks & Recreation Commission Final Minutes June 15, 2023 barking dog, and yet the cops showed up and said well, we got a noise complaint. So, something is really not working about that space. I would agree with the other folks that have shared the perspective that dog traffic is not so detrimental to the health of the field that it should be considered a deterrent. So, I would just ask that the Committee look for solutions beyond the two extremes, as you've been encouraged by prior speakers. I don't think this needs to be an all -or - nothing proposition, and as Dr. Wanderman said, it's not a zero -sum game here where it has to be either complete open season or no off -leash times at all. There are reasonable compromises that can be reached here where I, as a member of the community, can have more of my needs met by this public space that I am helping to support. Thank you so much. I appreciate your time." Meghan Dunne — "Hello — I am both the BGS president, a Lincoln parent, a dog owner and an active member of the community. I think that if all dog owners were as responsible as Braig Darling and the Lemayers and the Wondermans and the Beezers, it would be amazing. Do not disagree that there cannot be some shared time. I guess the question and consideration would be that could it be enforceable like right now. There is "no dogs off -leash" at Ray, but yet, every day, there are dogs off -leash at Ray, and I think that those who are respectful, like the aforementioned people, and are not running their dogs through a softball practice or a flag football practice, that is fantastic, they are getting to work their dogs at later times. Finding dog poop when you're trying to work with eight -year -olds on the field isn't awesome. I think that if it's going to be considered for some shared time, I think that there just needs to be some stipulations in place. Like is this dog community willing to have a group that goes around and cleans up other dogs who are in the community — clean up their feces so that the Lincoln kids, the softball kids, the flag football kids, whoever else is using the field is able to do so. Is there going to be? I think that I personally have never called to say that dogs are off -leash because I have a dog, and I get it, I get that. People want to use the field, but if there were enforceable hours, then you know, I think that then is a way to actually enforce those and then people who are having their dogs off -leash not in those hours are actually held accountable because I think that it is not happening now. I think the resources is difficult. No one wants to use Burlingame police's time on something like dogs running around on the field. I do agree with other users that people should be able to play in the park and not worry about dogs if they are afraid of dogs. I guess that is my feeling. If there would be some consideration on how this would be enforceable and people are being really respectful of whatever decision is made, that is what I would like to see happen." Arjun Worthy — "Hi, I am a Lincoln dad, and I have a couple of kids that go to school there, and we have a dog. We use a lot of the great park. I really appreciate the time here and hearing everyone's comments. I'd like to say to Megan's point, I think that's a great idea. And as a dog owner and as a parent, once we've designated time for dogs, like someone mentioned, early morning hours or just before sunset, I am perfectly willing to go and tell other dog owners in ties outside of that you shouldn't be bringing your dog there or leaving them off -leash because it's a privilege that we're going to grant dog owners to say yes, you guys can use the dog park or the park at these hours off -leash and so once you guys make that happen, I am perfectly open to going and telling other dog owners not to cross those boundaries so that we can keep this park open for dog owners during that time. So, I just wanted to throw that out. I don't know if others would say the same but I am happy to do it at least whenever I am around. Thank you." Pappajohn closed public comment. 8 Parks & Recreation Commission Final Minutes June 15, 2023 Pappajohn opened the Commission discussion. Commissioner Wettan noted he is in all the categories. He was a Lincoln dad for ten years; his daughter played softball; he had a dog and lived near Ray Park. He noted that we need to be mindful that no matter what is decided, thousands of people live around this park, more than they probably did before COVID-19. They all had dogs, and the place was crawling with dogs, especially right before sunset. He believed people in Burlingame need to stretch a little more to share resources. He said it was nice to hear Meagan's suggestion, and it was nice to hear the one person who was able to respond to it, and maybe some of the solution lies there. He noted that it sounded like fencing would not work, but maybe in the middle of the field, we can have more drought -resistant surfaces that are more tolerant of dogs. He felt it was probably something that still required more long-term thought. One thing he noted was dogs pee on the field. No one mentioned this, and no one can stop their dog from doing that, impacting the field. It was a trade- off that had to be considered. He hoped for a way to share it. Commissioner Yu inquired about enforcement. She asked if the Committee considered volunteer enforcement by asking the dog owner community to step up. Director Glomstad noted the Committee had gone through this before when they looked at Washington Park and Cuernavaca. There were some dedicated people at the beginning, but as time went on, the volunteers declined. Enforcement is complaint -based. The police focus on educating the public. Pappajohn asked Supervisor Holtz if there were problems with dogs digging holes, how often, what the maintenance was, and the difference between sports cleats and regular wear and tear from sports. Supervisor Holtz stated there is a difference. He agreed that a soccer team out on a rainy day could do more damage to a field than all the dogs in the park for an entire year. And by and large, most dog owners were very responsible. It was when folks didn't pay attention to their dogs when you get the holes being dug out in the field. He gave an example from the Billy Sue tournament last Friday. Staff received an email midday saying to please come out and repair twelve holes in the fields from dogs. Glomstad noted that staff left garbage cans of soil and shovels at the fields, and responsible dog owners would notice somebody else didn't do a great job of watching their dog and fill the hole for them. But just filling the hole with loose soil won't solve the problem. The grass will not grow back until we close it in the winter. The staffs goal was to fill in holes whenever they found them during mowing. Pappajohn asked how often they mow. Holtz responded with every week. Pappajohn asked if any of the Commissioners had any questions. There were none. Pappajohn inquired if the Commissioners were ready to make a decision or if more discussion was needed. Commissioner Wettan asked if there was a path to consider other possibilities. He noted the fence idea was explored, and the answer was not overwhelmingly positive. Holtz responded that the rehabilitation of Ray Park was designed as a sports field. Underground drainage and specialized soil allowed the field to drain faster. The specialized grass grows better in this type of condition. He didn't know for sure; however, he believed there wasn't a better grass option based on the design of the field. 9 Parks & Recreation Commission Final Minutes June 15, 2023 Pappajohn asked what the off -leash hours could be that wouldn't impact sports and other activities. Acquisti stated that 6-7:30 am Monday — Friday would have the least impact. Pappajohn asked if that could be all year or if those hours would apply during certain seasons. Acquisti and Glomstad noted that per the ordinance, there are only two places where dogs are allowed off -leash. The hours are 6-7:30am at the back of Washington Park and on the upper sloped hillside of Cuernavaca Park. Bayside Dog Park and Skyline Park were open year-round. In addition, off -leash was allowed during the school year, from 8 am to 2:30 pm, at Washington and Cuernavaca Field. Glomstad noted the options, such as specified off -leash hours, fencing, or not allowing dogs off - leash on the field. She stated it was a complex issue in a City with limited resources. Commissioner Wettan noted that the field is full of dogs around sunset, especially in the summer. He heard that enforcement is between zero and extremely minimal. He noted that we had an ordinance that says no dogs, and there are dogs all over the field, and it is impacting the field. Commissioner Milne stated he thought the same thing. Dogs were all over the field and were breaking the rules. The Commission had done this before when dogs were not allowed, but they were allowed sometimes in some areas. There was not a complete following of the rules before, and there won't be a complete following of the rules after. He asked if it got a lot worse when the Commission made the change before. Holtz stated that use increased. Milne noted that based on past experience, if we make a decision that opens the door officially to having dogs there, we could expect increased usage at all times. Staff noted damage to the field is most problematic if there is a weekend tournament. Staffing is very limited on Friday. If a contact for the dog group could go out and make repairs on a Friday, it would alleviate some of the challenges. Milne inquired if volunteer groups had lasted very long. Glomstad noted it depended on the group's dedication, but the previous ones no longer existed. It is up to the Commission to hear what everyone's saying and make a recommendation to the Council. Commissioner Wettan noted that if it were the spirit of the people, they would be more aggressive if they knew it was a scarce resource they wanted to hold onto. Glomstad stated there are those community members, and this is not who/where the challenges are coming from. Wettan stated he didn't think more dogs could be there at dusk. Glomstad responded that the decision could have unintended consequences, such as a significant increase in usage. Pappajohn noted she heard there are more dog owners now, and they want a place to have their dogs unleashed. She said that if Washington and Cuernavaca work, why not Ray Park? She inquired what other Commissioners thought about that. Commissioner Chang said the difference in mirroring hours at Washington was the usage of the field during the school year, during the school day. He could see a time and place for hours when school is not in session. 10 Parks & Recreation Commission Final Minutes June 15, 2023 Pappajohn inquired what the hours at Washington were currently. Glomstad stated the hours for the back of the park were 6 am to 7:30 am. The hours were only from 6 am to 2 pm on the ballfield during the school year. Commissioner Holzman said she lived near Ray and was a dog owner. Her dog loved the Ray Dog Park. She noted that this was not an easy issue and that no one would be happy with whatever was decided. She felt that the Commission needed to look at the community as a whole. She said there were places for dogs to run and get exercise. She said the Commission hadn't heard from people unhappy with the dogs off -leash. She noted that she didn't feel the Commission was ignoring the dog constituents, of which she considers herself one. She said this was a balancing act since Burlingame is a small city with limited resources. She felt that opening a field specifically designed for sports to off -leash dogs should be taken lightly. Milne stated that if there was an option to allow dogs from 6 am to 7:30 am and that after 7:30, they would be gone, and there would be no poop on the field and no damage, he would be all for it. He didn't think there was an option that would make everyone happy. He thought that experience had shown that when you open it up a little bit, it opens it up much more. However, it seemed like wasted space before 7:30am, and it would make many community members happy. Commissioner Yu agreed that it seemed there would be unhappy constituents either way. She thought it was important to look at this group, and she noted Washington Field. She noted that it could be worth more discussion and investigation on both sides. She wanted to know how many complaints go to the police for enforcement. The fact that so many people showed up at the meeting is compelling in adding off -leash hours. Wettan agreed with Yu's statements and felt they had no good solution beyond the status quo. He urged the Committee to take another look. His experience living in the Ray area in the evening is that around 6 pm, there are no dogs out there; however, at 7 pm, there are a lot of dogs out there. He wondered if the time creep over the hours designated would be such a problem in the evening hours and if people tried to enforce it could work. He also wanted the field to stay in good condition. Pappajohn noted that she heard from the commissioners that they were not ready to decide tonight and asked the Committee to discuss it again. Wettan noted that we have a list of 75 dog owners that may be an emerging community, and they may have some solutions, not just requesting time on the field. He said we were all in these categories and wanted the same thing. Yu stated she lived two blocks from Ray Park. She saw all the things that had been described. She was also a softball mom. She would love to explore other compromises. Holzman noted there had been good volunteerism from AYSO, softball, and baseball parents filling holes, picking up poop, and doing all kinds of things. There were active community members out there working on the fields. They may not be happy about it, but were doing it to have their practices. 11 Parks & Recreation Commission Final Minutes June 15, 2023 Wettan stated he had heard about the potential dog licensing fees to help pay for some expenses. He did not recall hearing an outcome for that. Glomstad responded that instituting a new license fee would have to go through the City Attorney's office. Chang inquired if one of the issues is continued volunteerism, then a panel of 6-12 community members would be on duty to fill holes and do the work. Glomstad replied that an Ad Hoc Committee could set up meetings with the different groups. Pappajohn asked for a commissioner to join Commissioner Holtzman and Chang as an ad hoc committee to explore further options and bring them back to the Commission. Milne volunteered. 8. STAFF AND COMMISSIONER REPORTS a. Parks & Recreation Department Reports Director Glomstad reported that the summer session starts on Monday, and the first concert in the park is on June 30. The Department has received sponsors to pay for the concert sound system. She thanked Chair Pappajohn for her help with the Senior Bingo Benihana event earlier in the day. It is also the first anniversary of the new Community Center being open. b. Commissioners Reports Commissioner Brunello — No Report Commissioner Wettan — The ribbon cutting for the new Burlingame Intermediate School gym was on June 6, and the Bocce Ball Tournament hosted by the Burlingame Parks & Recreation Foundation was a good time. Commissioner Chang — No Report Commissioner Holzman — Reported she and a few commissioners weeded at Laguna Park and made great progress. Commissioner Yu — No Report Commissioner Milne — The Burlingame Parks & Recreation Foundation would sell drinks at the Music in the Park events. On October 8, the Foundation will be hosting a Pickleball Tournament. The Foundation is considering ways to do a fundraiser for the family campout. Commissioner Pappajohn— No Report 9. FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS Ray Park Dog Off -leash Area Field Validation for Non -Profit Organizations Registration date for Residents and Non -Residents 10. ADJOURNMENT 12 Parks & Recreation Commission Final Minutes June 15, 2023 There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 8:56 pm. The next meeting of the Parks & Recreation Commission is scheduled to be held in person on Thursday, July 20, 2023, at 7:00 pm. Respectfully submitted, Joleen Helley Recording Secretary 13 Parks & Recreation Commission Final Minutes June 15, 2023